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Take, take, take, take, take.

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Marina, Marina, up.

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Wow, this looks so beautiful.

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Wow.

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Everybody move around into position.

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Time to start.

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Brock, let's go closer to Marina.

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You know what is interesting?

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After 40 years of people thinking you're
insane and you should be put in mental

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hospital.

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You finally actually get all the
acknowledgement.

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It takes such a long time to take it
seriously.

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There, right there, right there. Don't
move anything.

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Right there.

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It's a long way.

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Welcome to the arts portion of our
program. Kind of the highbrow part. In

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it's the Museum of Modern Art Museum
that we're talking about.

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Yeah, but it might raise your eyebrows
is what this one might do.

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In addition to being highbrow. You have
to decide if it's highbrow. Now, Monica

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Wallace would just see it. There are
three pieces in particular that are new.

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Here's the first one.

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It's called In Ponderabilia by artist
Marina Abramovic.

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The name of the artist Marina? Marina.
What was her last name?

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Don't know.

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Abramovic. Oh, okay. Like, you know, the
Eastern European.

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Marina Abramovic.

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I want whatever packs you.

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My mother dressed me as the devil when I
was four years old for the little

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party. My first party ever.

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Everybody was dressed very happy.

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You know, princesses and cowboys.

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And I was looking so miserable.

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Really, little kid with a very sad black
devil dress with the two horns.

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I had no idea why she dressed me as the
devil.

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I think that marked my life.

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So we recreated the singers.

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Only six years later.

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I mean, after the show, I have to really
put more attention to the text of my

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life, so I have to really look for it.
If I put advertising like that, you

40
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that will attract some guys?

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I mean, to, like, true artists on the
top of their career, looking for the

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single male.

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So basically, you're looking in many
marinas.

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You look in the marina who is product of
the two partisan parents, two

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national heroes, no limits, willpower,
any aim you put in the front of her.

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And then right next to this one, you
have the other one who is like a little

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girl who, you know, mother never give
her enough love.

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very vulnerable and unbelievably
disappointed and sad.

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And then it's another one who have this
kind of spiritual wisdom and can go

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above all that.

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And this is actually my favorite one.

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You have to make room. Oh, he's there.
Hello?

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We can, we can... Okay.

54
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Now we have to start.

55
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Yeah, yeah. Let's go forward. Okay.

56
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I'm going back to here. Yeah, yeah.

57
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Here I have ten pieces of that.

58
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Which is plenty.

59
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Yeah, but it's whether they work.

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I love your name. August is amazing.

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Do you have a brother, September?

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No, but who is writing the text?

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That would be Klaus.

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That would be Klaus.

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All right.

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I'll just be putting it on the wall.

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Oh, that's great. I like time.

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And I like Russian.

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But we can try together.

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Okay.

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All right. It's too red.

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Well, we talked about making it black
and white yesterday.

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Yeah. You know, there will be color,
actually.

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One time in my life, I would like to
show everything what it takes you to

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art and to be an artist. How much
correspondence, how much emails, how

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faxes, how much letters, how much plane
tickets, how much... All the structure

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is just enormous.

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What is actually physical work, which is
not to do with creativity, but just

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administration.

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Marina Branovic is office.

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Hey. In MoMA, I have all six floors.
Wow.

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It's a big deal, I tell you. It's a big
deal. I feel pain in my back already

83
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just to think about. So it's that
chronological. So this is the beginning,

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know. It's the beginning of my early
work. You know, this work is called

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Artist's Present. So only it's...
Focusing on performance where artist is

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literally present. Doesn't include my
transitory objects, doesn't include my

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sound pieces, doesn't include my objects
with crystals. Just performance, pure

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performance. It's all about performance.

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If we have the video, we don't show
anything except video, you know. It's

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radical. So for me, it's like, that's
why this show in MoMA is historical for

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me, important to really put the kind of
things in the right place.

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Because performance has never been a
regular form of art. It's been an

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alternative since I was born. So I want
it really to be a real form of art and a

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respect before I die.

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So let's start with the

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exhibition. You are re -performing your
own performances?

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You're making one new piece?

98
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Just one new piece. The artist is
present and all the rest of the people

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-performing.

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my um yeah and so i think your first
performance was also in the

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museum in in belgrade is that uh kind of
no it's true but what kind of venues

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and marina the element of

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sound is imminent in relation in
movement where you are driving a van

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square for 16 hours and shouting numbers
through a megaphone. You substituted

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your persona with that of a prostitute.

106
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And rhythm two, where you took
psychoactive drugs to challenge social

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towards female mental illness. And
rhythm five, where you lay inside a

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five -pointed star set on fire and then
fainted from the lack of oxygen.

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And now these pieces, you have often
been threatened and threatened your own

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body and I know you're probably sick of
these questions, but I just want to

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touch on it briefly before we can move
on. There's only one question I didn't

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hear since 10 years.

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Why is this art?

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This was the main question since I
started performing with people asking me

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I could not take it. And now actually
I'm missing it. Nobody asks me why it's

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not art. Because maybe it's my age. So
they kind of get it finally or they just

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pretend they get it. If you're...

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Alternative when you're young, when
you're 18 and 19 and 20 and you're still

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alternative with 29 and you're
alternative with the 30 and you're

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with the 40 and you're alternative with
the 50. But excuse me, I'm 63.

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I don't want to be alternative anymore.

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Many people think of her as the
grandmother of performance art.

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Performance emerged in the 60s as a
result of a challenge to painting.

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Whatever it was, it was not something
you hung on the wall.

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It's a form of art where

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The medium is the body.

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In the case of Marina, she used the
human body to make statements that can

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sometimes be quite violent, can
sometimes be provocative.

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She is directly and boldly challenging
an audience.

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What is at the heart of her artwork?

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is the shared experience of the audience
and the performer.

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Many of Marina's works are
interventions.

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When she did Rhythm Zero in Naples with
the objects and people could use the

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objects against her, that is like the
Stanford experiment, right? That's kind

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a scientific experiment that reveals
human nature.

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But what is art other than revealing
human nature?

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It's like a murder mystery. It's like a
Hitchcock. Is he going to get murdered?

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There the gun is.

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What's going to happen? Who's walking
in? Who's walking out?

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The veneer of civilization is very thin.

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And what's absolutely terrifying is how
quickly a group of people will become

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bestial if you give them permission to
do so.

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And some of...

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Marina's early performances were about
that.

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It's playing with that edge of the knife
that allows her to

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create the intensity of the performances
that make them transcendent.

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Basically, the workshop called Clean the
House, and it's preparation for the

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show in MoMA.

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My generation of artists is not
performing anymore. Maybe two or three

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left. And I was thinking, is it my task
to make history straight?

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So when I now asked to make a
perspective on the performance work in

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really thinking that it would be
important for me to...

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let it go also from my own ego and give
five historical pieces to other younger

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artists to be re -performed.

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So now they're coming.

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I'm cooking the soup.

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She said something like, we're not going
to eat or speak for three days. She's

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like, you'll hate me at the time, but
you'll love me forever after and do

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whatever I want.

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She wants us to fast for three days, and
she's mentioned some other

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exercises that we'll be doing.

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Like, I'm going with my instincts on
this, and...

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It feels right to trust her.

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So you can make your last phone call.

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Last phone call.

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You know, you'll be free for three days.
It's amazing.

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So what's happening?

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We'll let you know later. Okay, it
doesn't matter.

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This will be different.

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They can take this experience and they
do everything they want with their own

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life.

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But probably they'll hate me anyway.

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At least in the beginning.

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It's a very simple structure, you know.
And the whole idea is... to slow down to

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slow down with your body and your mind
in the zero gravity if it's possible so

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you know the first ritual will be to
wake up and do some simple exercises

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like a kind of you know little jumping
and little bit of the energy releasing i

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will show to you it's very simple and
then we go to the river anybody who have

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problem with nudity please take a
swimming suit one bikini one side two

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whatever you want or naked i don't care
the purpose of this whole thing is that

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they really have to perform three
months, which is a very big kind of

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obligation.

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So they have to create their own
charismatic space.

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And for that, you have to consider some
training.

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The proposition here is to empty
yourself.

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Be able to be in the present time.

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Put your mind here and now.

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And then something emotional opens.

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And that's what we are looking for in
this work.

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In performance, you have to have a
mortal approach.

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It's a kind of direct energy dialogue
with the public and the performer.

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And if you are performing in that way,
that you are there, it is 100%.

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Their emotional moment arrives to
everybody.

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There's no way out. Everybody feels it.

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Artists have to be warriors, have to
have this determination, and have to

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the stamina to conquer not just new
territory, but also to conquer himself

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and his weaknesses.

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It doesn't matter what kind of work
you're doing as an artist.

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The most important is from which state
of mind you're doing what you're doing.

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And performance is all about state of
mind.

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Wait and see.

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Marina Abramovich, the artist at
present, means.

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that from March 9th to May 31st,
whenever you enter the museum during

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hours, it may be at 9 .30 in the morning
or at 5 in the afternoon, she will be

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present.

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How I imagine artists present in Atrium,
I actually imagine more like a kind of

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film set.

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There is a huge square of light.

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Just a square, you know, like lost in
translation in some way.

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In the middle of that square, it's
placed the table and two chairs.

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It's so simple. It's like nothing there.
If it's an artist sitting like a

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mountain, you know, I want to be just
like a rock there. Only three months.

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And looking you in the eyes, you're
talking three months.

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Every single day, if you are performing
three months, it's really performance

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become life itself.

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People don't understand that the hardest
thing is to actually do something which

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is part of nothing.

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It's demanding all of you, because there
is no story anymore to tell. There's no

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object to hide behind.

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There's nothing. There's just your pure
presence. You have to rely on your own

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energy and nothing else.

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Seven and a half hours, six days a week,
motionless.

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I have nothing to say.

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No comment.

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All your respect.

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I could imagine it being unbearable to
sit there.

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She's gonna try.

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I don't know whether it's gonna work.

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When she had this idea, I thought, oh
God, she's gonna kill herself.

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And I thought, Marina, I don't know if I
want to have the responsibility of

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having... given you the permission to do
that.

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Think about it for two days.

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And then she called me the next morning.
She said, I can do that.

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In the moment that Klaus Wieselbach came
with the title of the show, Art is

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Present, it was like a destiny clicked,
like right away. Art is Present.

236
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:29,900
There's no any way out.

237
00:21:30,220 --> 00:21:32,640
I wanted to show you. I mean, isn't it
fantastic?

238
00:21:33,820 --> 00:21:35,260
No one will ever see it.

239
00:21:35,630 --> 00:21:41,650
and it's nothing to do with the museum
will not get flooded for sure i mean

240
00:21:41,650 --> 00:21:46,010
maybe i don't use it at all i just have
to i'm very much counting on you never

241
00:21:46,010 --> 00:21:50,550
using it you promised no because it's
like the whole idea about you know

242
00:21:50,550 --> 00:21:55,370
security men don't get it so i think it
doesn't want it to to deal with reality

243
00:21:55,370 --> 00:22:00,160
you know i think that's fine i think
that's a great solution I have no idea

244
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:04,040
I have to do harder and harder. It's
like something in me. You know, I can

245
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,980
perfectly make a retrospective, 36
people re -performing my piece. We have

246
00:22:08,980 --> 00:22:12,000
wonderful dinner, celebration, go home
and work is done.

247
00:22:12,420 --> 00:22:18,060
But why I have to do this? This is my
cross I'm carrying. It's insane.

248
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,840
So God helped me to finish this one.

249
00:22:27,820 --> 00:22:33,840
When you're watching a Marina Abramovich
performance, you are engaging with her

250
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,560
physical presence, which is very
striking.

251
00:22:37,780 --> 00:22:43,160
The clear evidence that she has a lot of
physical stamina and strength, which

252
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,960
the public and its presence gives her.

253
00:22:47,580 --> 00:22:53,400
But clearly, physically, it's innate.
She can take sitting still or doing very

254
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,580
little or whatever she's doing in the
performance.

255
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,200
for long periods of time, which most
people cannot.

256
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:09,540
So my both parents are national heroes
from the seat of time, you know, in the

257
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:11,520
Second World War in ex -Yugoslavia.

258
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,140
I had such a terrible...

259
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,240
real control at home, which I hated.

260
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,200
Everything was like discipline,
schedule.

261
00:23:21,580 --> 00:23:23,760
I was trained to be a soldier,
literally.

262
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:27,200
My mother would even wake me in the
middle of the night and my bed was not

263
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,220
straight because I'm sleeping too messy.

264
00:23:29,420 --> 00:23:30,640
I mean, that kind of insanity.

265
00:23:31,220 --> 00:23:35,080
There was no love there, you know. I
never remember my mother kissing me or

266
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:36,600
holding me in any possible way.

267
00:23:36,820 --> 00:23:40,120
And much later in my life when I asked
her, but why, you know, you never kissed

268
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,920
me, she was so surprised at the
question. She said, of course I didn't

269
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:44,920
not to spoil you.

270
00:23:45,210 --> 00:23:49,850
And it really didn't spoil me. But on
the other side, it was the grandmother

271
00:23:49,850 --> 00:23:53,710
was loving and always there, and she was
spiritual and spending all the time in

272
00:23:53,710 --> 00:23:54,429
the church.

273
00:23:54,430 --> 00:23:58,690
And I was with her as a child because
both of them were doing political career

274
00:23:58,690 --> 00:24:00,150
and never had time for me.

275
00:24:00,450 --> 00:24:04,910
So there's a kind of strange mixture
between spirituality and that communist

276
00:24:04,910 --> 00:24:10,710
discipline. Looking now back, it was
very important to me. And actually, this

277
00:24:10,710 --> 00:24:12,550
what makes me what I am now.

278
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:24,600
Welcome to Florence.

279
00:24:24,820 --> 00:24:31,280
I went to this bathroom in the airport
and there was a fantastic discovery.

280
00:24:31,460 --> 00:24:38,240
There are two pages with illustrations
how to wash the hands by water and

281
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,240
soap.

282
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:51,220
Today we are here for the important

283
00:24:52,750 --> 00:24:56,230
Lorenzo Magnifico Award to Marina
Abramovich.

284
00:24:56,610 --> 00:24:57,610
Thank you.

285
00:24:58,510 --> 00:25:01,470
Thank you very much. And now,

286
00:25:04,770 --> 00:25:08,770
you know, I was thinking a lot to give a
lecture, and I don't feel in this

287
00:25:08,770 --> 00:25:13,190
occasion of getting prized to give a
lecture. I would like to actually have

288
00:25:13,190 --> 00:25:17,630
dialogue with the public. And before I
do this, I would like to read you my

289
00:25:17,630 --> 00:25:18,630
manifest.

290
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:27,840
So my manifest, I think I wrote really
out of my heart and this also

291
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,000
is actually funny in the same time, but
it's true.

292
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:37,000
An artist should not lie to himself or
to others.

293
00:25:42,060 --> 00:25:46,080
An artist should not steal ideas from
the other artist.

294
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:52,420
An artist should not compromise for
themselves or in regard to to the art

295
00:25:52,420 --> 00:25:53,420
market.

296
00:25:58,820 --> 00:26:01,780
An artist should not kill another human
being.

297
00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:05,740
An artist should not make themselves
into an idol.

298
00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,220
An artist's relation to his love life.

299
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:15,180
No, love life.

300
00:26:16,260 --> 00:26:18,100
Love. Amore.

301
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:20,860
Chiedo scusa.

302
00:26:25,930 --> 00:26:31,150
An artist should avoid falling in love
with another artist. An artist should

303
00:26:31,150 --> 00:26:33,770
avoid falling in love with another
artist.

304
00:26:34,010 --> 00:26:38,250
An artist should avoid falling in love
with another artist.

305
00:26:41,530 --> 00:26:48,430
The very first

306
00:26:48,430 --> 00:26:55,190
moment we met was when she came to
Amsterdam. She was to do a performance.

307
00:26:56,460 --> 00:27:01,840
I met her just before and said, well,
the performance was called Thomas Lips.

308
00:27:02,180 --> 00:27:07,360
It came down to that she would cut a
pentagon in her stomach with a razor

309
00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:13,020
and she would whip herself and say, no,
no, maybe not.

310
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,820
Afterwards, I started nursing her wound.

311
00:27:18,380 --> 00:27:23,500
I didn't lick her wound, but I cared for
the wound and cleaned it and, you know,

312
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:24,720
put something on it.

313
00:27:25,610 --> 00:27:27,650
And I think that was the crucial point.

314
00:27:30,290 --> 00:27:35,690
By the time we met, there was
immediately a fascination, type -wise,

315
00:27:35,690 --> 00:27:40,110
-wise, personality -wise, the work we
have been doing, singly, she and me.

316
00:27:41,850 --> 00:27:45,430
You know, there was a recognition like
you had found a lost brother or a lost

317
00:27:45,430 --> 00:27:46,650
sister or something like this.

318
00:27:46,970 --> 00:27:51,130
Plus that we were born on the same day,
November the 30th, both Sagittarius,

319
00:27:51,290 --> 00:27:52,290
obvious.

320
00:27:52,910 --> 00:27:54,690
You know, destiny brought us together.

321
00:27:57,450 --> 00:28:01,230
I really loved him. I mean, loved him
like more than myself.

322
00:28:01,930 --> 00:28:05,950
And for me, when we started working
together, it was forever.

323
00:28:06,190 --> 00:28:09,350
I was thinking, this is the
relationship, this is work, and it would

324
00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:14,470
Like two twins connected with the body
together and soul.

325
00:28:16,430 --> 00:28:22,750
We were lovers, we were friends, we were
performers, all at once.

326
00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:26,000
And our love was always on top of it.

327
00:28:28,540 --> 00:28:32,400
I think Marina and Ulay's relationship
is one of the great love stories.

328
00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:38,420
Marina is very hardcore and she had met
someone who was equally prepared to go

329
00:28:38,420 --> 00:28:40,380
to any length for his art.

330
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,280
And that must have impressed her
enormously because she had met her

331
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:52,660
When Marina and Ulay came together and
started the group of works known as the

332
00:28:52,660 --> 00:28:56,960
Relation Works, there had been nothing
like it in performance before.

333
00:28:58,380 --> 00:29:02,900
We would engage our bodies in a
confrontational way.

334
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:08,360
We wanted to get to the point about male
-female conflict, traumatic experiences

335
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,520
about a relation.

336
00:29:10,060 --> 00:29:15,220
Afterwards, often we were black and
blue, but it didn't hurt.

337
00:29:37,450 --> 00:29:41,490
That was as intensive and as heavy, as
powerful as other people's whole life

338
00:29:41,490 --> 00:29:42,490
again.

339
00:29:45,170 --> 00:29:49,590
We went through so many stages, falling
in love, having this relation of 12

340
00:29:49,590 --> 00:29:56,050
years. Now we're talking 23 full years
that we are able, first time ever, to be

341
00:29:56,050 --> 00:29:57,090
under the same roof.

342
00:29:59,610 --> 00:30:02,830
Well, I should be here at two the first.

343
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:08,540
Time that will lie comes in this
specific apartment in New York. Never

344
00:30:08,660 --> 00:30:09,599
never upstate.

345
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:14,300
They've been separated since many years,
so we are getting together to talk

346
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:15,300
about it.

347
00:30:15,820 --> 00:30:20,480
And I have no idea what will come out,
but it will be for sure interesting, for

348
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:21,480
sure.

349
00:30:24,660 --> 00:30:25,660
Hello.

350
00:30:27,060 --> 00:30:28,060
How are you doing?

351
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:29,320
I'm doing fine.

352
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:32,840
She's been the psychoanalyst.

353
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,680
Dr. Glimor, very special lady.

354
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:38,080
Really strict.

355
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:39,200
I like strict.

356
00:30:39,340 --> 00:30:41,240
I mean, she doesn't have uniform, but
almost.

357
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,260
So she told me emotionally, I'm not
doing so bad.

358
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:51,760
I should go more into my childhood, look
into the patterns, not to repeat for

359
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:52,760
the next relationship.

360
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:59,180
I told her about Ulay, and she think
maybe it's going to be easy, maybe not,

361
00:30:59,180 --> 00:31:00,720
whole thing. You know, we don't know.

362
00:31:01,210 --> 00:31:02,830
Okay, let me have a glass of water.

363
00:31:05,370 --> 00:31:09,030
We both are in a third act of our life.

364
00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:15,010
There's no other moment, you know, to
get closer and somehow forgive each

365
00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:21,970
to really kind of peacefully find, okay,
it was really horrible and painful and

366
00:31:21,970 --> 00:31:26,170
hateful and everything else together,
but it was creative in the same time,

367
00:31:26,170 --> 00:31:27,350
we should just forgive each other.

368
00:31:41,659 --> 00:31:43,300
I think I still love her.

369
00:31:44,060 --> 00:31:47,820
I can live with it. I'm happy I do,
rather than hating her.

370
00:31:55,610 --> 00:31:59,590
Yeah, I think up in the office, isn't
it? Yes. And you're the one who sends

371
00:31:59,590 --> 00:32:04,630
emails. David is a young artist and good
one, too, from Torino.

372
00:32:04,890 --> 00:32:06,710
Davide. Yeah, not Davide, Davide.

373
00:32:06,910 --> 00:32:07,910
Davide.

374
00:32:08,130 --> 00:32:09,170
How are you doing?

375
00:32:09,470 --> 00:32:10,930
I'm doing fine. Look at me.

376
00:32:11,390 --> 00:32:14,390
Totally. If I can be of help, pleasure.

377
00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:21,610
If I can do something for pleasure,
depends what, but, you know, speaking

378
00:32:21,630 --> 00:32:22,630
yeah, of course.

379
00:32:22,970 --> 00:32:24,350
I can do only two things.

380
00:32:24,890 --> 00:32:25,890
Help will be good.

381
00:32:26,110 --> 00:32:29,290
It's an amazing place, Davide. Are you
often here, Davide?

382
00:32:29,810 --> 00:32:31,090
Yes, pretty often.

383
00:32:31,370 --> 00:32:34,010
Yeah, I would try to do the same.

384
00:32:34,970 --> 00:32:36,790
Maybe she still loves me. I don't know.

385
00:32:37,570 --> 00:32:39,610
We will figure out tomorrow something.

386
00:32:39,930 --> 00:32:41,010
Tomorrow after tomorrow.

387
00:32:41,630 --> 00:32:44,730
And maybe put a finger on her teeth.

388
00:32:46,650 --> 00:32:47,890
Put a finger on her teeth?

389
00:32:48,150 --> 00:32:49,830
Yeah, that means to make something
sensitive.

390
00:32:50,330 --> 00:32:51,330
Yeah.

391
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:04,800
Nina, are you nervous about the show at
the moment, or are you not nervous?

392
00:33:05,540 --> 00:33:07,620
Incredibly. I'm always nervous even if I
give a speech.

393
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,380
I sit in the toilet for days.

394
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,820
If I'm not nervous, then I'm nervous,
but I'm not nervous.

395
00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:19,540
And when you're sitting in the chair,
are you going to move on the chair a

396
00:33:19,540 --> 00:33:24,360
little bit, leaning backwards and
forwards, or are you planning on staying

397
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,360
the exact same position?

398
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:26,800
In the exact same position, not moving.

399
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,280
And just looking straight, what are you
looking at like that?

400
00:33:29,620 --> 00:33:31,100
Anybody who sits in front of me.

401
00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:51,500
Marina seduces everybody she ever meets.

402
00:33:52,260 --> 00:33:55,800
But that's not the case for me because I
went through that process and now we

403
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:56,800
are divorced.

404
00:33:56,820 --> 00:34:00,700
We are great friends, but we are
divorced. So she would never try to

405
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,160
We're divorced.

406
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,699
With Marina, I always try to subtract
the performer from the person I have a

407
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:14,940
working relationship with.

408
00:34:15,179 --> 00:34:19,280
And I try to deal with her as if she was
a sculptor. I look at the work as if it

409
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,280
was an object.

410
00:34:21,500 --> 00:34:26,080
I try to be incredibly matter -of -fact
with her because I don't want her

411
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,920
performance persona to get into the way.

412
00:34:31,940 --> 00:34:34,480
Because with Marina, she's never not
performing.

413
00:34:42,739 --> 00:34:44,719
Marina, you don't need this?

414
00:34:45,460 --> 00:34:46,679
Are you sure?

415
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,219
I can teach you one that you can also
do. It's fun.

416
00:34:54,860 --> 00:34:55,860
Yeah, you do.

417
00:35:05,260 --> 00:35:09,780
I met recently somebody that so many
people told me I could meet, I could

418
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,640
And that just happened in MoMA. And so
we came here and had a little drink.

419
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:20,280
And it's quite interesting, you know,
guy. He's a magician, David Blaine.

420
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,340
He was thinking we can maybe do
something during my...

421
00:35:31,380 --> 00:35:36,340
You know, there's always those axes in
the glass in case of emergency, you

422
00:35:36,420 --> 00:35:41,160
So I was thinking if somehow I got into
using this alcohol, this substance that

423
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,000
she has, and gagging her face with it,
and people would think it was pretty

424
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:49,440
strange, and then breaking the glass
open and then taking an axe and just

425
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:50,399
gutting her.

426
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:51,600
And then there come emergency.

427
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:56,700
They put blankets over me, blood all
over the place, and, you know, the

428
00:35:56,700 --> 00:35:58,820
come, take him to prison. She is laying
there.

429
00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,920
And the whole exhibition is over.

430
00:36:02,140 --> 00:36:04,840
And people don't know what happened. It
was accident, not accident.

431
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,060
Questioning, you know, maybe reality is
not reality.

432
00:36:08,380 --> 00:36:10,920
And I'll just hack her violently.

433
00:36:11,220 --> 00:36:12,220
Have you done this before?

434
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:13,920
No.

435
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,880
If I do it twice, it's an illusion.

436
00:36:18,140 --> 00:36:21,440
But when you do it one time, it's crazy.

437
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,240
I mean, the amazing thing is, Maria,
that it's going to be in at MoMA.

438
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:26,860
Huh? Yeah. Yeah.

439
00:36:27,230 --> 00:36:29,550
Those people are the perfect people to
do it to.

440
00:36:30,270 --> 00:36:31,270
Absolutely. Yeah.

441
00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:34,050
What do you really think?

442
00:36:34,390 --> 00:36:36,750
I think it's a really bad idea.

443
00:36:37,590 --> 00:36:42,670
Why? Because he's a really interesting
guy, and he does amazing things.

444
00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:47,610
But the fact of the matter is, you know,
some people culturally call people like

445
00:36:47,610 --> 00:36:51,430
that magicians, but I'm sure he would
prefer to be called an illusionist.

446
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:55,500
And that really tells you all you need
to know. Your work doesn't have anything

447
00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:57,480
to do with illusionism. It's all real.

448
00:36:57,980 --> 00:37:02,280
And to make the connection between those
two bodies of work in MoMA on the

449
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,960
occasion of the most important show
you've made to date in your career would

450
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:06,618
a disaster.

451
00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:10,640
I think it's completely the wrong thing
to do. Totally wrong. I would oppose it

452
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:12,080
with every fibre of my being.

453
00:37:12,300 --> 00:37:13,300
How about that?

454
00:37:13,740 --> 00:37:14,800
Done. You're right.

455
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,700
We work with nine galleries now.

456
00:37:20,270 --> 00:37:21,870
And now Marine is such a giant.

457
00:37:22,530 --> 00:37:27,650
But Sean is the one that came when no
one wanted to deal with all the blurry

458
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:33,810
problems of having a performer artist in
a gallery context.

459
00:37:50,350 --> 00:37:55,250
Well obviously performance is by its
very nature ephemeral. So what we did

460
00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:58,970
that we very carefully selected one
photograph to represent each

461
00:37:59,190 --> 00:38:02,590
And then we made those into editions and
we sold them.

462
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:06,510
And we did them in very small editions.

463
00:38:07,350 --> 00:38:12,310
You have to remember this is 20 odd
years ago. So we were selling them for

464
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:14,870
between $2 ,000 and $5 ,000 each.

465
00:38:15,580 --> 00:38:19,860
And now, you know, they're very sought
after. And if you could find them, they

466
00:38:19,860 --> 00:38:25,860
would be between $25 ,000 and $50 ,000
each. The model that we created for

467
00:38:25,860 --> 00:38:31,300
Marina and the way that we created the
market for her has become something of a

468
00:38:31,300 --> 00:38:33,840
standard that other people have looked
at.

469
00:38:48,650 --> 00:38:53,630
In the 70s, with Ulay, we took such a
radical decision to just live in the

470
00:38:53,930 --> 00:38:59,030
We don't need to pay telephone bills,
electricity bills, rent bills, and we

471
00:38:59,030 --> 00:39:02,350
didn't have no money at all, but we
didn't want to do anything else but

472
00:39:02,350 --> 00:39:06,010
performing. Igor, this is the van where
I live.

473
00:39:07,170 --> 00:39:13,250
I live all this time, and two days ago
you said how cute, and I said cute is

474
00:39:13,250 --> 00:39:16,770
when it's in a museum, but it was a
tough life. It was not cute at all.

475
00:39:19,770 --> 00:39:24,370
I didn't see this car for more than 30
years. And when I arrived in the museum,

476
00:39:24,570 --> 00:39:27,550
it hit me completely unexpected, like in
my stomach.

477
00:39:27,850 --> 00:39:32,190
It was something that, like, entire past
life just rushed into me.

478
00:39:33,990 --> 00:39:35,630
We have to go in the countryside.

479
00:39:35,870 --> 00:39:40,530
We have to live with shepherds, milk the
goats. We have to go with an empty

480
00:39:40,530 --> 00:39:43,610
bottle with mineral water and borrow
gasoline on the station.

481
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,720
I knew every shower in every gas station
in Europe.

482
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,120
Anyway, I'm very sentimental about this
man.

483
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:58,220
Oh, God, it really breaks my heart,
looking at this car inside, and how,

484
00:39:58,420 --> 00:40:04,580
how much belief and hope and innocence
our life, you know, was dealing with in

485
00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:09,180
that time. This is incredible happy time
of my life in this place.

486
00:40:09,620 --> 00:40:12,720
It was everything I always wanted, the
man I love.

487
00:40:13,340 --> 00:40:17,700
And work together and be radical and not
making any compromise.

488
00:40:18,540 --> 00:40:19,540
Forever.

489
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,100
Two of us and the dog and the universe.

490
00:40:25,060 --> 00:40:30,020
Show me that incredible road from living
there to here.

491
00:40:30,660 --> 00:40:31,980
It's been a long way.

492
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:38,100
I have to go and put the show together.

493
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:40,280
I have no time.

494
00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,440
Marina was knitting sweaters for the
both of us.

495
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,560
I was repairing the car. I drove the car
all the time. Marina couldn't drive.

496
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:56,880
So it was really basic, basic, basic,
basic, like modern nomads.

497
00:40:57,480 --> 00:40:58,660
But it was the best time.

498
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:02,320
And from that, we got a lot of energy
and a lot of power.

499
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:14,110
Straight head. Red light, stop.

500
00:41:15,590 --> 00:41:16,590
Oh.

501
00:41:16,990 --> 00:41:19,150
Green light, go.

502
00:41:20,710 --> 00:41:23,930
Let's stop right here somewhere, because
I would like to drive now.

503
00:41:24,170 --> 00:41:28,190
It's my historical moment. I'm going to
drive you. First time in my life.

504
00:41:28,410 --> 00:41:30,290
I'm willing to see if I find you.

505
00:41:36,150 --> 00:41:38,070
Why? Will I?

506
00:41:39,110 --> 00:41:41,390
They will never think you'll come to
this point.

507
00:41:45,890 --> 00:41:47,370
Ever. Do we have light?

508
00:41:48,010 --> 00:41:49,010
To the right.

509
00:41:49,070 --> 00:41:50,070
No, do I have a light?

510
00:41:50,190 --> 00:41:51,149
Yeah, the light is on.

511
00:41:51,150 --> 00:41:53,510
Oh, that's great. I put the light on
already.

512
00:41:53,870 --> 00:41:56,190
Is the brake down or brake is up?

513
00:41:56,430 --> 00:41:59,610
Brake is up. Now it's going to happen.
Thank you. I knew something was wrong.

514
00:42:03,870 --> 00:42:04,870
Let's go.

515
00:42:04,950 --> 00:42:05,950
Let's ride.

516
00:42:06,270 --> 00:42:07,950
You're going to be in my hands now.

517
00:42:08,890 --> 00:42:10,510
Yeah, I was afraid so.

518
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,760
Right, a little more.

519
00:42:13,220 --> 00:42:14,220
A little more.

520
00:42:14,660 --> 00:42:17,460
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go, go, go, go. It's
perfect.

521
00:42:17,700 --> 00:42:18,198
It's perfect.

522
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,200
Just perfect.

523
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:21,920
Go, perfect.

524
00:42:22,780 --> 00:42:25,560
A warm meter you can go on. Oh, we have
to go through this door.

525
00:42:26,940 --> 00:42:33,060
Well, I'm a little shaky, but I'm, you
know, shaken but very much taken.

526
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,660
Okay, from one to ten, Ulay, what do you
think?

527
00:42:37,900 --> 00:42:39,080
Five. More.

528
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,720
More. Okay, we go for seven and a half.
No, we go for seven.

529
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:47,920
Seven is a good number.

530
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:49,600
Great.

531
00:42:57,540 --> 00:42:58,540
Well done.

532
00:42:58,720 --> 00:42:59,720
Well done.

533
00:43:00,140 --> 00:43:01,140
Yeah,

534
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:04,540
you work like hell. That's the only
thing I've done.

535
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,840
That's true. I wish to make a zucchini
sauce with this pasta.

536
00:43:09,660 --> 00:43:14,720
Our relation was very much to do with a
really male -female kind of separation

537
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:18,680
in the duties. He would do everything
with his external world, you know,

538
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:20,960
grants, finding the money, going to the
bank.

539
00:43:21,180 --> 00:43:24,080
And I would do cleaning, washing, taking
care of the dog.

540
00:43:24,580 --> 00:43:28,960
And I remember when we split, I didn't
have a bank account. I have no idea how

541
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:29,960
that all worked.

542
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,980
It took me a long time to learn
everything from the zero.

543
00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:35,440
You have an opener.

544
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:36,700
Yes.

545
00:43:37,060 --> 00:43:38,060
After an hour.

546
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:39,900
more simplistic life.

547
00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:45,040
She became very ambitious, both in the
work and in the manifestation of her

548
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,300
ambition, meaning image and wealth.

549
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,580
And I maybe went in a more stable,
straight line after separation.

550
00:43:55,940 --> 00:44:01,200
And she climbed this huge mountain with
a lot of success.

551
00:44:02,340 --> 00:44:06,500
Maybe it sounds strange, but I don't
have the time to do this effort to make

552
00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:07,500
this.

553
00:44:08,630 --> 00:44:10,050
possible for myself.

554
00:44:11,170 --> 00:44:15,110
But anyhow, I don't have to make it
possible for myself. I'm just going to

555
00:44:15,110 --> 00:44:16,110
her.

556
00:44:20,590 --> 00:44:27,370
There are not so many artists,

557
00:44:27,490 --> 00:44:31,530
I believe, who are working so hard like
Marina does.

558
00:44:31,930 --> 00:44:35,010
But she is always very, very elegant.

559
00:44:38,890 --> 00:44:43,710
And I look like a worker in the field.
Of course I'm a worker in the field of

560
00:44:43,710 --> 00:44:47,690
art. But I look like a worker, but I do
much less work.

561
00:44:50,570 --> 00:44:53,130
So, you know what I mean.

562
00:44:54,650 --> 00:44:55,650
I'm just lazy.

563
00:45:01,670 --> 00:45:05,690
Nightly Crossing consisted of a man and
a woman sitting opposite each other on

564
00:45:05,690 --> 00:45:11,920
two chairs, sitting motionless, silent
fasting,

565
00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:19,000
where it mainly was about tremendous
dislikes in Western society.

566
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,880
Inactivity, inaction is discredited.

567
00:45:24,900 --> 00:45:28,080
Silence is discredited, and fasting is
discredited.

568
00:45:28,380 --> 00:45:32,680
So these are the three things which
could upset people pretty much,

569
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:36,800
when you went for 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10,
11, 12.

570
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:43,460
13, 14, 15, 16 days inactive, silent,
farting,

571
00:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,660
absolutely motionless, which is almost
impossible.

572
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:56,520
We did nightly crossing for 90 days, non
-consecutive days, once and stood up.

573
00:45:58,620 --> 00:45:59,620
I had enough.

574
00:46:02,060 --> 00:46:05,580
A woman can fit better than a man
because of anatomy.

575
00:46:07,240 --> 00:46:14,200
And I got up after 13 or 14 days because
my ribs were pushing so hard on

576
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,880
my spleen that I went to the hospital
and they say, well, you should stop

577
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:19,880
fasting.

578
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,880
I lost then already 24 pounds.

579
00:46:24,240 --> 00:46:29,640
So that was just over the limit, I
think, on my part once.

580
00:46:32,980 --> 00:46:36,300
One of the reasons that he said that he
could not sit, he was so skinny that he

581
00:46:36,300 --> 00:46:40,180
was sitting on his bones and was just
penetrating through his skin. But okay,

582
00:46:40,300 --> 00:46:44,660
yogi guys do the same, but he didn't. So
anyway, and then he said, you have to

583
00:46:44,660 --> 00:46:47,100
stand up because performance can't be
without me.

584
00:46:47,420 --> 00:46:49,300
And I didn't see the reason.

585
00:46:49,580 --> 00:46:51,900
That's why in this night, I'm
continuous.

586
00:46:52,500 --> 00:46:55,460
I'm continuous, but there is empty
chair.

587
00:47:08,490 --> 00:47:14,770
and never have had a relation with a
woman, neither with a man, of such a

588
00:47:14,770 --> 00:47:20,370
degree of symbiotic quality for 12 years
while we were burning up.

589
00:47:28,890 --> 00:47:34,690
The Marina Ulay collaboration in a
simple, direct and profound way

590
00:47:34,690 --> 00:47:36,250
expressed

591
00:47:37,130 --> 00:47:43,290
the male -female dynamic, and then
reaches this kind of epic conclusion

592
00:47:43,290 --> 00:47:46,290
walk on the Great Wall of China called
The Lovers.

593
00:47:47,210 --> 00:47:50,850
It's beyond operatic in its proportion.

594
00:47:54,010 --> 00:48:00,830
The Lovers, in which Marina and Ulay
walked the Great Wall of China, was an

595
00:48:00,830 --> 00:48:01,830
epic.

596
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:07,210
The three -month process... of walking
towards each other.

597
00:48:08,990 --> 00:48:15,270
Very simple, really pared down, and
extraordinary in its clarity.

598
00:48:19,870 --> 00:48:22,890
This was the last of their relation
works.

599
00:48:26,250 --> 00:48:32,730
And of course, the way the Great Walk
ended was with their splitting up.

600
00:48:37,759 --> 00:48:42,380
We, very soon, we become this great art
couple when everybody was projecting

601
00:48:42,380 --> 00:48:43,860
like a perfect image.

602
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,440
In reality, he was not happy with his
position. And somehow, the more better

603
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,640
pieces we've been doing in the
performance, the worse our relation will

604
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:53,640
private.

605
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:59,080
And later on, his interest was different
than my interest. And he was really

606
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:04,000
kind of experiencing life, go for
drinking, go for the drugs. And then he

607
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,600
unfaithful, which was very hard for me.

608
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:14,920
We were monogamous till a certain point
when the tightness of that

609
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,460
ideology started to unravel, started to

610
00:49:19,460 --> 00:49:22,960
disintegrate a little bit.

611
00:49:24,380 --> 00:49:30,220
Then she had at the same time a sexual
adventure with somebody like I had.

612
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:31,620
The same time.

613
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,280
Except she did it with a friend of ours.
I didn't.

614
00:49:37,900 --> 00:49:38,900
Shouldn't have said that.

615
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:49,520
It took us about eight years of
negotiations to get permission to walk

616
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,820
Chinese Wall. And during the
negotiations, many times you have to

617
00:49:52,820 --> 00:49:54,220
China. And she was a translator.

618
00:49:55,140 --> 00:49:58,600
And when we finished the Chinese Wall,
he told me that she was pregnant.

619
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,160
And he asked me what I should do. I
said, what you should do?

620
00:50:02,880 --> 00:50:05,600
You know, I leave and you do whatever
you want.

621
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:07,280
So they married.

622
00:50:09,380 --> 00:50:11,840
It is like, you know, like it began.

623
00:50:12,100 --> 00:50:16,420
It ended like it began. It began like
this and it ended like this.

624
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:19,520
That's all.

625
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:29,080
After I quit with Ulay, it was the most
dramatic moment of my life.

626
00:50:29,320 --> 00:50:33,800
I remember writing in my diary, I was
40, I was...

627
00:50:34,110 --> 00:50:35,790
fat, ugly, and unwanted.

628
00:50:36,190 --> 00:50:41,110
And I said, God, I lost men I love, and
I lost my work, because it was working

629
00:50:41,110 --> 00:50:43,570
together. There was nothing there. It
was empty.

630
00:50:44,050 --> 00:50:48,590
And I was like, new beginning, or I'm
going to totally, you know, go down and

631
00:50:48,590 --> 00:50:49,710
destroy myself in depression.

632
00:50:52,290 --> 00:50:57,070
And this was the moment that I went,
first time, had some money in Paris, and

633
00:50:57,070 --> 00:50:58,610
bought first designer clothes.

634
00:50:59,730 --> 00:51:02,680
And I felt... It's all good. I went to
hairdresser.

635
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,020
I went to do pedicure, manicure.

636
00:51:05,260 --> 00:51:06,380
I was like, wow.

637
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:11,080
Wow. What is the price of this kind of
jacket? I mean, it's unpayable. You

638
00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:12,800
pay. The price?

639
00:51:13,300 --> 00:51:18,600
The price of a couture, they start from
8 ,000 to, can go to 200, 300, 400 ,000

640
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:19,600
euros. Depends.

641
00:51:19,700 --> 00:51:20,700
It depends on the pieces.

642
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:23,780
I've done all this stuff. You know, I
made all this work.

643
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,440
I'm fine. Why not feel good and want it
again?

644
00:51:28,170 --> 00:51:33,530
And then I really say, oh, God, I really
love fashion. And it was the kind of

645
00:51:33,530 --> 00:51:34,530
secret desire.

646
00:51:34,990 --> 00:51:36,570
I mean, it looks amazing.

647
00:51:37,170 --> 00:51:39,330
What do you think? Really? Wow.

648
00:51:40,390 --> 00:51:43,850
Being a performance artist in the 70s to
mid -80s is poverty.

649
00:51:44,590 --> 00:51:45,930
Point. Who stopped?

650
00:51:48,050 --> 00:51:50,390
Bye -bye extreme.

651
00:51:54,490 --> 00:51:59,910
After we broke up... She got into
theater productions because there was

652
00:52:08,490 --> 00:52:14,430
I mean, the new works of her are highly
formalist, aesthetic.

653
00:52:18,330 --> 00:52:21,370
So she clearly had made a step to the
theater world.

654
00:52:23,330 --> 00:52:24,450
Very much staged.

655
00:52:25,260 --> 00:52:27,100
with theatrical touch to it.

656
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:38,560
Marina is a much more theatrical, a much
more emotional, a much more dramatic

657
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:42,000
artist than the show throws.

658
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:52,240
The risk at the MoMA exhibition will be
how far it

659
00:52:52,240 --> 00:52:53,800
goes into being theatrical.

660
00:52:56,590 --> 00:52:58,570
Marina often says there's a difference.

661
00:52:58,810 --> 00:53:01,810
When you perform, you have a knife and
it's your blood.

662
00:53:02,110 --> 00:53:05,370
When you're acting, it's ketchup and you
don't cut yourself.

663
00:53:06,990 --> 00:53:11,530
If we lose that in the MoMA performance,
if it's just a fake knife and ketchup,

664
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:12,670
then we lost.

665
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:26,400
I've been in bed six days.

666
00:53:28,720 --> 00:53:29,980
In bed, that's it.

667
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,680
Shit, shit, shit, shit. I didn't leave
this bed for six days now.

668
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,340
I was so desperate. I was taking
everything.

669
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,440
Anything anybody bring me, I take it.

670
00:53:42,980 --> 00:53:46,760
But then I discovered the syrup with
codeine. This is amazing stuff.

671
00:53:47,180 --> 00:53:50,080
I never take drugs, but the codeine
really makes you happy.

672
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:55,640
I slept like a baby yesterday with a
smile through the whole night on my

673
00:53:56,400 --> 00:53:57,400
Like hideous.

674
00:53:58,520 --> 00:54:00,040
Anyway, there I am.

675
00:54:00,260 --> 00:54:04,700
I think red is very good here because I
always think that red gives strength. So

676
00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:10,360
if I have red collar, red bedsheets, red
shawl, red pyjama, red oranges, I maybe

677
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,360
get better soon.

678
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:15,320
Okay.

679
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:18,080
What's my monologue?

680
00:54:42,340 --> 00:54:44,040
We don't have power.

681
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,880
And we don't even have the swords to
play them on anyway.

682
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:51,320
Or the players.

683
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:53,560
Sorry, not yet.

684
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:55,800
There's nothing.

685
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,100
It's nothing. I mean, it's five days
before the show. It looks like there's

686
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:01,100
show.

687
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:09,720
Can we start with the rehearsal?

688
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,120
Can we get everybody there?

689
00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:13,740
Please come. Oh,

690
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:15,800
yes, fine.

691
00:55:16,620 --> 00:55:17,620
Come.

692
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,600
So, can we sit down two seconds? Because
I want to see everybody.

693
00:55:24,020 --> 00:55:25,020
Okay.

694
00:55:32,980 --> 00:55:37,640
Hello. It's so different than our
workshop in the countryside, I tell you.

695
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:38,640
going through hell.

696
00:55:38,700 --> 00:55:42,060
And you know, one thing is so important
to be open about all this shit, because

697
00:55:42,060 --> 00:55:46,400
it's like I can't pretend now I'm in
this damn shit, but I'm not. And also,

698
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,720
know, I didn't even have a personal
contact with any of you. I have to trust

699
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:54,360
with my life for this show, for these
three months. There's no other way.

700
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:57,760
Because it's like, you know, I have to
be really...

701
00:55:58,090 --> 00:56:01,930
I have all my energy to make my own
piece, knowing that everything is fine

702
00:56:01,930 --> 00:56:02,930
upstairs.

703
00:56:10,510 --> 00:56:13,650
Thank you very much for coming to MoMA
tonight.

704
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:19,830
I'm the curator for Marina Brommer's
retrospective, and I would like to

705
00:56:19,830 --> 00:56:20,830
introduce Marina.

706
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:32,600
very much to Marina.

707
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:39,260
I thought we should open the podium for
questions, so one last chance to ask her

708
00:56:39,260 --> 00:56:41,960
something directly, otherwise we have to
wait until June.

709
00:56:43,220 --> 00:56:44,940
I suggest it's too late.

710
00:56:45,260 --> 00:56:47,440
Let's three have three real good
questions.

711
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:49,920
And at least one personal.

712
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:51,840
How could we know that before?

713
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:55,360
Personal question.

714
00:56:55,820 --> 00:56:57,020
You seem happy.

715
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:58,320
Are you?

716
00:57:01,930 --> 00:57:07,090
Depends. You know, so what I can say, I
just, I'm very happy to tell by myself

717
00:57:07,090 --> 00:57:10,910
because who I can live with to do this
next three months what I want to do.

718
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:16,470
There's no human being who would stay
with me because I, like in a military

719
00:57:16,470 --> 00:57:21,110
drill, you know, I'm in this real
complete concentration about doing this

720
00:57:21,110 --> 00:57:25,450
months work because it looks like
simple. I'm just in atrium and having

721
00:57:25,450 --> 00:57:26,470
position on the chair.

722
00:57:27,470 --> 00:57:31,170
not like that it's extremely difficult
because you have to really be like a

723
00:57:31,170 --> 00:57:35,490
mountain i want to create some kind of
stillness in the middle of the of the of

724
00:57:35,490 --> 00:57:40,170
the hell and um and for that i have to
be in the right state of mind so i have

725
00:57:40,170 --> 00:57:45,890
to restrict myself with everything and
in the winter when i come out it's going

726
00:57:45,890 --> 00:57:49,870
to be summer because that will be 31st
of may

727
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:58,660
Marina is one of the most significant
artists of the second part of the 20th

728
00:57:58,660 --> 00:57:59,660
century.

729
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:05,660
What is so amazing about Marina is that
she really invents situations where

730
00:58:05,660 --> 00:58:06,680
nobody has been yet.

731
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:08,340
Her practice is extreme.

732
00:58:09,460 --> 00:58:16,240
In New York, tens if not hundreds of
thousands of people will be invited

733
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,240
to make an experience they've never made
before.

734
00:58:26,270 --> 00:58:30,430
MoMA is the most significant context in
the world for any living artist to make

735
00:58:30,430 --> 00:58:31,430
a show.

736
00:58:38,210 --> 00:58:42,770
I really see the chance that the
performance art become mainstream art.

737
00:58:43,010 --> 00:58:46,370
And with this kind of show in the Museum
of Modern Art that never happened

738
00:58:46,370 --> 00:58:48,350
before, it's the big chance.

739
00:58:49,710 --> 00:58:51,930
That incredible feeling of
responsibility.

740
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:54,520
for performance in general.

741
00:58:54,940 --> 00:58:56,440
It's not just for myself.

742
00:59:00,400 --> 00:59:00,920
The

743
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:07,620
inability

744
00:59:07,620 --> 00:59:14,040
to keep going, the potential of giving
up, will become part of the performance

745
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,040
if it occurs.

746
00:59:16,160 --> 00:59:17,660
There could be a fiasco.

747
00:59:18,380 --> 00:59:19,840
I mean, there are no rules.

748
00:59:25,900 --> 00:59:32,040
The artist is present is a hugely
courageous piece because it's a piece

749
00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:33,040
fail

750
01:00:37,960 --> 01:00:40,060
That was five years living.

751
01:00:42,220 --> 01:00:43,620
Five years living.

752
01:00:45,700 --> 01:00:46,700
Isn't it great?

753
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:18,640
That's the other one.

754
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:20,580
They are simultaneous.

755
01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:24,320
Wow.

756
01:05:14,640 --> 01:05:17,980
Now Ulay is not there. Now there is no
life partner.

757
01:05:18,980 --> 01:05:22,140
Now the audience is, in quotes, her
lover.

758
01:07:18,740 --> 01:07:20,660
You've been a very bad girl.

759
01:07:21,540 --> 01:07:26,700
Well, that was Beyonce in a new video
with Lady Gaga. And Sandy Rios does not

760
01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:28,840
like Lady Gaga's latest video.

761
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:30,660
This should be outlawed. It should be
banned.

762
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,500
Personally, there is a limit to what we
should tolerate.

763
01:07:33,820 --> 01:07:37,080
You know, I find it interesting because
you've got this Lady Gaga video out now.

764
01:07:37,340 --> 01:07:43,140
And literally, in today's New York Post,
there's an article about this exhibit

765
01:07:43,140 --> 01:07:45,740
at the Metropolitan Museum of Art.

766
01:07:46,080 --> 01:07:50,120
Where daring patrons squeeze through two
live nude performers, alternating

767
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:54,160
couples opposite and same sex, who stand
in a narrow doorway of the new exhibit,

768
01:07:54,340 --> 01:07:59,860
which is by some Yugoslavian -born
provocateur. As you listen to the sound

769
01:07:59,860 --> 01:08:02,040
this woman's constant guttural screaming
and moaning.

770
01:08:02,360 --> 01:08:05,420
That, they say, is art. And it's at
MoMA.

771
01:08:17,430 --> 01:08:19,510
images, like four images from the
exhibition.

772
01:08:19,870 --> 01:08:22,330
You know, we're not trying to stop the
coverage. We're just not going to have a

773
01:08:22,330 --> 01:08:23,630
circus going on inside.

774
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:51,300
Friday we had some weirdos, but we were
expecting it.

775
01:09:51,760 --> 01:09:56,600
I think some people are starting to
understand that it's possibly a stage,

776
01:09:56,780 --> 01:09:59,980
possibly an important window.

777
01:10:00,180 --> 01:10:05,660
The problem of the day was that we
established a signal of emergency for

778
01:10:05,820 --> 01:10:10,820
So if she raised her hand, it could mean
many things, but essentially it means,

779
01:10:10,860 --> 01:10:14,200
please ask the person who is sitting
with me to leave for some reason.

780
01:10:14,750 --> 01:10:18,330
i don't feel comfortable i'm scared i
don't feel well many different reasons

781
01:10:18,330 --> 01:10:25,230
yeah this thing that is like sort of
cleaning the cleaning the thing and

782
01:10:25,230 --> 01:10:31,930
then boom like it reconnects and it's
only for you so each and everyone had

783
01:10:31,930 --> 01:10:37,590
a clean unique and personal contact with
marina boom like a magnet

784
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:59,440
What is so beautiful about the MoMA
performance, she's treating actually

785
01:10:59,440 --> 01:11:03,560
human being she has encountered with the
same attention and same respect. That's

786
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:04,560
pretty shocking.

787
01:11:04,620 --> 01:11:11,040
And some people are shocked by this, and
some people anyway think they deserve

788
01:11:11,040 --> 01:11:14,240
this attention, and they are finally
where they should be.

789
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,360
And others fall in love with her.

790
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:30,840
There's so many different reasons why
people come to sit in front of me.

791
01:11:34,500 --> 01:11:36,620
Some of them, they're angry. Some of
them, they're curious.

792
01:11:36,900 --> 01:11:38,740
Some of them just want to know what
happened.

793
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:48,740
Some of them, they're really open, and
you feel incredible pain.

794
01:11:51,420 --> 01:11:53,080
How many people have so much pain?

795
01:11:59,530 --> 01:12:02,670
When they're sitting in front of me,
it's not about me anymore.

796
01:12:05,850 --> 01:12:06,850
It's very soon.

797
01:12:07,310 --> 01:12:09,470
I'm just a mirror of their own self.

798
01:12:41,420 --> 01:12:46,040
Somebody told me the other day that for
most masterpieces, people stand in front

799
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:47,340
of it for 30 seconds.

800
01:12:47,580 --> 01:12:49,340
Mona Lisa, 30 seconds.

801
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:51,980
People come and sit here all day.

802
01:12:58,440 --> 01:13:01,040
The world is moving so fast now.

803
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:04,320
People barely have an attention span at
all.

804
01:13:04,940 --> 01:13:07,080
She slows everybody's brain down.

805
01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:13,700
She... She asks us to stay there for
quite a length of time, which we're not

806
01:13:13,700 --> 01:13:14,720
used to doing.

807
01:13:17,860 --> 01:13:21,000
She transforms us as a result.

808
01:13:32,760 --> 01:13:38,620
Marina is an artist that visualizes time
using her body.

809
01:13:39,210 --> 01:13:41,090
in the space with the audience.

810
01:13:44,170 --> 01:13:49,210
By the mere duration she brings time in
as a weight.

811
01:13:49,470 --> 01:13:52,010
It's a weight on the performer's
shoulders.

812
01:13:54,810 --> 01:13:59,310
Taking a piece out of the performer's
life has a value.

813
01:14:02,890 --> 01:14:06,410
Time is not an ephemeral just rushing
by.

814
01:14:09,130 --> 01:14:15,670
Just imagine time as an unbearably large
object you cannot move

815
01:14:15,670 --> 01:14:17,230
and you are caught in.

816
01:15:37,350 --> 01:15:40,070
Thank you.

817
01:15:41,210 --> 01:15:42,310
Thank you.

818
01:15:42,730 --> 01:15:44,390
Thank you.

819
01:15:47,320 --> 01:15:48,700
We open at 10 .30 tomorrow.

820
01:15:48,980 --> 01:15:50,800
My God. No, no, no. Come back tomorrow.

821
01:15:51,220 --> 01:15:53,160
Be with me. Come back tomorrow, okay?

822
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:54,720
You'll give me a chance?

823
01:15:55,300 --> 01:15:56,980
When you come back tomorrow, we'll talk
about it.

824
01:15:57,280 --> 01:15:59,860
You'll give me a chance? No, I'm not
giving you a chance. We'll talk about it

825
01:15:59,860 --> 01:16:02,640
tomorrow. You said so. No, I didn't say
so. I've got hair. I've got my witness.

826
01:16:02,800 --> 01:16:04,320
Ladies, let's move.

827
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:06,320
You okay?

828
01:16:07,180 --> 01:16:08,440
You want me to get a wheelchair?

829
01:16:08,760 --> 01:16:09,759
No, no, no.

830
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:13,160
Give me a couple of seconds.

831
01:16:13,420 --> 01:16:14,880
Okay. I'm putting on the ground along.

832
01:16:17,230 --> 01:16:18,230
Thank you.

833
01:16:55,240 --> 01:16:56,460
This is about limits.

834
01:16:59,100 --> 01:17:00,320
Even for me.

835
01:17:24,650 --> 01:17:26,110
I was thinking it was a mistake.

836
01:17:26,870 --> 01:17:28,890
Incredibly, I was expecting another
three hours.

837
01:17:29,530 --> 01:17:31,230
I was thinking it was so short.

838
01:17:32,070 --> 01:17:33,070
I don't know.

839
01:17:33,750 --> 01:17:34,750
Today?

840
01:17:35,270 --> 01:17:41,490
Yeah. I saw her having pain. I saw and
heard the guards saying that they were

841
01:17:41,490 --> 01:17:47,450
worried. So I say, if you think you ruin
your health, if you think you damage

842
01:17:47,450 --> 01:17:53,870
your body, then I offer you officially
now to end the performance.

843
01:17:55,150 --> 01:17:56,150
So painful.

844
01:17:57,970 --> 01:18:04,210
Okay. She just said, no, it would never
be an option. So she was like, not even

845
01:18:04,210 --> 01:18:07,690
considering it, not even listening to
the end of my sentence. She was just

846
01:18:07,690 --> 01:18:10,850
saying, no, I would never, never
consider this.

847
01:18:36,840 --> 01:18:40,900
There is pain, but the pain is like a
kind of keeping secrets.

848
01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:46,540
The moment you really go through the
door of pain, you enter to another state

849
01:18:46,540 --> 01:18:47,540
mind.

850
01:18:53,060 --> 01:18:57,640
The feeling of beauty and unconditional
love and this feeling of there is no

851
01:18:57,640 --> 01:18:59,980
kind of border between your body and
environment.

852
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,780
And you start having this incredible
feeling of lightness.

853
01:19:06,170 --> 01:19:12,670
and harmony with yourself, something
becomes like a holy. I can't explain.

854
01:19:18,070 --> 01:19:22,570
And that other state of mind is exactly
what the public starts feeling that

855
01:19:22,570 --> 01:19:23,610
something is different.

856
01:19:49,550 --> 01:19:51,330
Performance is all about state of mind.

857
01:20:01,190 --> 01:20:02,790
The public is like a dog.

858
01:20:03,550 --> 01:20:04,790
They can feel insecurity.

859
01:20:05,190 --> 01:20:07,330
They can feel fear. They can feel you're
not there.

860
01:20:09,370 --> 01:20:14,530
So the idea is how you can bring the
performer and the audience in the same

861
01:20:14,530 --> 01:20:16,150
state of consciousness here and now.

862
01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:12,400
It's just a little glue to keep it in
position

863
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,860
It's so interesting that I could not do
without table in the first two months. I

864
01:22:27,860 --> 01:22:31,500
need to have a structure. I need to have
the table. And the table has to get

865
01:22:31,500 --> 01:22:35,020
there until I really got to the point
that I actually don't need the table.

866
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:46,200
And once the table is removed, it's so
much more direct. How do you feel about

867
01:22:46,200 --> 01:22:47,480
it? What do you think is the difference?

868
01:22:47,900 --> 01:22:52,220
The difference is that from a security
point of view, there's no buffer between

869
01:22:52,220 --> 01:22:53,220
two of them.

870
01:22:53,340 --> 01:22:56,720
You know, like if somebody is going to
do something, there's nothing preventing

871
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:00,720
someone from doing something, you know.
That's the only thing I feel, but we're

872
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:03,880
just going to instruct everyone,
everyone that has to sit in front of her

873
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:06,800
you cannot move, touch, hug, or do
anything.

874
01:23:10,140 --> 01:23:13,800
She makes herself so much more
vulnerable. It's so much more direct.

875
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,820
There's no obstacle between her and the
audience.

876
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:18,180
So she was right.

877
01:23:18,740 --> 01:23:20,140
Priest doesn't need the cross.

878
01:23:49,070 --> 01:23:50,470
Nine, ten.

879
01:23:50,690 --> 01:23:52,010
Three, two.

880
01:25:01,200 --> 01:25:02,200
We're almost done.

881
01:25:03,040 --> 01:25:04,520
You said it in April, too.

882
01:25:06,060 --> 01:25:09,940
These are details you cannot grab a few
minutes here and there.

883
01:25:10,660 --> 01:25:13,440
A few minutes. Watch one mom. A few
minutes.

884
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:15,440
One week here, one week there.

885
01:25:15,860 --> 01:25:16,860
You bastard.

886
01:25:16,980 --> 01:25:20,120
They need to concentrate on the details.

887
01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:22,240
You need to be careful.

888
01:26:05,710 --> 01:26:11,870
I stand in the line several days and I
didn't get it in there. Yeah. Yeah.

889
01:26:11,970 --> 01:26:17,090
Yesterday I was there at five in the
morning. I didn't, I didn't make it very

890
01:26:17,090 --> 01:26:20,810
now at the end, it's very competitive.

891
01:26:26,510 --> 01:26:28,890
People camping out all night and
waiting.

892
01:26:29,110 --> 01:26:34,030
It throws open the whole kind of rock
star question, performance star, and

893
01:26:34,030 --> 01:26:37,310
basically a groupie question.

894
01:26:37,650 --> 01:26:42,130
You know, I think what's fantastically
interesting about her work and this work

895
01:26:42,130 --> 01:26:47,250
is the blank slate aspect of it. What it
brings out in everyone from the art

896
01:26:47,250 --> 01:26:52,790
world, people that claim they know the
work very well, people that are part of

897
01:26:52,790 --> 01:26:55,730
this vocabulary and this language, and
then...

898
01:26:56,210 --> 01:26:59,770
outright strangers and people that come
in and go, well, why is she doing this?

899
01:27:00,370 --> 01:27:05,190
And that's endlessly interesting because
what you're really seeing is this giant

900
01:27:05,190 --> 01:27:06,690
canvas also of projections.

901
01:27:50,200 --> 01:27:56,120
Marina's connection to the audience
comes out of this extraordinary lack

902
01:27:56,120 --> 01:27:58,620
she feels or she felt as a child.

903
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:05,480
She desires to be loved. She desires to
be needed.

904
01:28:16,400 --> 01:28:18,440
Marina does have the experience.

905
01:28:20,060 --> 01:28:24,700
that she needs the audience like air to
breathe.

906
01:28:28,000 --> 01:28:29,820
That's the gasoline she's running on.

907
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:33,780
She lives for her art, she lives for the
audience.

908
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:42,960
When I met her, I thought, oh God, she's
in love with me.

909
01:28:43,780 --> 01:28:45,460
And it took me a while.

910
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:48,900
to understand that she is in love with
the world.

911
01:28:49,940 --> 01:28:51,480
So it's not personal.

912
01:28:51,740 --> 01:28:55,600
Don't take it personal. I'm in love with
the world. I'm not in love only with

913
01:28:55,600 --> 01:28:56,600
you.

914
01:28:57,440 --> 01:29:03,160
I realize she is repeating this
misunderstanding with every single

915
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:04,160
atrium.

916
01:29:36,300 --> 01:29:38,180
I don't know if the public idolizes me.

917
01:29:39,060 --> 01:29:41,980
It's their own thing, how they project,
but it's not my aim.

918
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:48,240
It's like, you know, if you come to a
certain point of your career, you are

919
01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:52,200
idolized, you have the money, and you
are famous, but this is not the aim of

920
01:29:52,200 --> 01:29:53,780
art. It's just a side effect.

921
01:29:56,620 --> 01:29:58,020
It's like a bee product.

922
01:29:59,560 --> 01:30:00,860
I love bee products.

923
01:30:12,590 --> 01:30:17,630
He plays around and you're kind of aware
of him, but the connection with Marina

924
01:30:17,630 --> 01:30:20,290
is so strong that it doesn't... It
really pushes it away.

925
01:30:20,550 --> 01:30:22,170
Do you see acting in the film?

926
01:30:22,470 --> 01:30:28,390
No, but it's that... I mean, if you say
it's acting, it's... The only thing

927
01:30:28,390 --> 01:30:31,390
maybe that's similar is that there are
people watching. The sacrifice of

928
01:30:31,390 --> 01:30:32,650
for a performance.

929
01:30:32,930 --> 01:30:35,370
It seems that that's always involved in
acting.

930
01:30:35,790 --> 01:30:37,410
Are you an actor?

931
01:30:37,730 --> 01:30:40,330
Yeah. Okay. You have that presence.

932
01:30:51,970 --> 01:30:53,810
Thank you.

933
01:31:13,960 --> 01:31:17,980
She told me that 750 ,000 people saw the
show.

934
01:31:18,900 --> 01:31:20,000
It's like a million.

935
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:26,720
I feel that we should prolong it for
some month more so we can get the

936
01:31:33,220 --> 01:31:35,800
Let's go, let's go, let's go. Is this
from the cook?

937
01:31:36,080 --> 01:31:37,300
The cook? Yes, yes.

938
01:31:42,410 --> 01:31:45,010
Who is this good -looking Asian man?

939
01:31:48,110 --> 01:31:52,850
We are close

940
01:31:52,850 --> 01:31:55,830
to the end.

941
01:31:59,730 --> 01:32:04,290
Actually, I saw Marina's exhibit the
first time. I'm really inspired to get

942
01:32:04,290 --> 01:32:08,890
performance art, to make my own
performance art, and to do it. And I

943
01:32:08,890 --> 01:32:13,000
like... Being here is actually like kind
of a piece in itself, like dedicating

944
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:15,020
this much commitment to her.

945
01:32:17,500 --> 01:32:18,700
We are there, kids.

946
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:20,760
Almost there.

947
01:32:22,940 --> 01:32:24,900
Next time, I'm in the country.

948
01:32:25,280 --> 01:32:28,940
Do you have a number?

949
01:32:29,180 --> 01:32:31,460
I wish I had a number, but I don't have
one.

950
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:34,420
I came all the way from Australia to see
Marina.

951
01:32:34,820 --> 01:32:35,820
Do you need a number?

952
01:32:42,830 --> 01:32:44,950
I was sad and happy all together.

953
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:15,360
They are up to sit. They just get out of
the museum and sit in front until the

954
01:33:15,360 --> 01:33:16,360
morning.

955
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:36,980
My God, this is amazing. This is the
last day, you know.

956
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:39,520
I don't think anybody imagines...

957
01:33:40,000 --> 01:33:41,160
This. What time is now?

958
01:33:41,780 --> 01:33:43,100
It's now 10 .15.

959
01:33:43,940 --> 01:33:45,980
Can we do the chase? We can do the
chase.

960
01:33:46,460 --> 01:33:49,320
We already planned it. I know what to
do.

961
01:33:49,700 --> 01:33:52,220
I'll give you a piece of paper, and then
we'll do 15 -minute intervals.

962
01:33:52,700 --> 01:33:56,220
You'll just go out, tap the person on
the shoulder, or tell them the time is

963
01:33:56,220 --> 01:34:01,560
expired. The museum is not going to open
until 10 .30, but we're going to let 40

964
01:34:01,560 --> 01:34:02,560
people in.

965
01:34:03,000 --> 01:34:05,940
If you are not planning to sit in front
of Marina, you don't have to come in

966
01:34:05,940 --> 01:34:07,340
now. You can wait until we open.

967
01:34:43,500 --> 01:34:47,180
Twenty -one times sitting with Maureen,
I hope it's powerful meaning.

968
01:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,180
Were you expecting to be transformed?

969
01:34:50,260 --> 01:34:53,980
No, it was just when I saw the first
time I came and, you know, wanted to

970
01:34:53,980 --> 01:34:57,080
experience and then, you know,
everything happened.

971
01:35:36,010 --> 01:35:40,930
We have come to sit with Marina before a
Babylon and confess.

972
01:35:41,570 --> 01:35:48,130
Speech is her pure form against pure
form, the reflection of an emptiness

973
01:35:48,130 --> 01:35:48,949
of value.

974
01:35:48,950 --> 01:35:55,230
We have come as the last spectators
before the crucifixion. We sit as

975
01:35:55,230 --> 01:35:59,150
at her table and our nonchalance betrays
her.

976
01:36:01,220 --> 01:36:06,680
And look, it's like it's a matter of
time before firing someone in the face

977
01:36:06,680 --> 01:36:07,680
going to be art.

978
01:36:10,560 --> 01:36:13,560
You're going to sit across from the
audience in silence. There are no

979
01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:14,560
distractions.

980
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:16,160
Distractions of any sort.

981
01:36:16,580 --> 01:36:17,600
No gestures.

982
01:36:17,880 --> 01:36:19,340
You don't speak to the audience. You
don't move your hand.

983
01:36:20,180 --> 01:36:21,180
That's the matter. You all right?

984
01:36:21,500 --> 01:36:22,379
You nervous?

985
01:36:22,380 --> 01:36:25,860
We've been waiting 16 hours. Okay, well,
your moment's coming up shortly, okay?

986
01:36:26,120 --> 01:36:27,440
All right, I'll let you know. Thank you.

987
01:37:15,640 --> 01:37:16,640
Let's go with it.

988
01:37:20,020 --> 01:37:21,020
Okay,

989
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:24,060
we need somebody to get in, please.

990
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:26,720
Come on, let's go. I know, I know, I
know.

991
01:37:27,220 --> 01:37:29,980
We need to get the performance needs to
continue.

992
01:37:30,180 --> 01:37:31,180
Maybe you've got a whip or something.

993
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,540
We need the performance needs to
continue.

994
01:38:33,870 --> 01:38:36,770
Because I think there's maybe still hope
that I'll get upstairs. So I'm like, I

995
01:38:36,770 --> 01:38:38,590
don't know if you guys should be filming
me.

996
01:38:40,430 --> 01:38:44,850
So I would love to just get across to
her. I mean, I didn't know it was a

997
01:38:44,990 --> 01:38:45,990
I didn't realize.

998
01:38:46,130 --> 01:38:48,730
And I would have obeyed the rule if I
had known.

999
01:38:50,000 --> 01:38:54,060
But I wanted it to be spontaneous. I
didn't want anybody to know. I wanted it

1000
01:38:54,060 --> 01:38:57,780
be my own thing and special with her.
And I thought in that space, in that

1001
01:38:57,780 --> 01:38:59,320
square, you get your own.

1002
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:05,060
It's like the audience is part of the
art, and we bring to it. And I just

1003
01:39:05,060 --> 01:39:07,840
to be as vulnerable to her as she makes
herself to everyone else.

1004
01:39:13,420 --> 01:39:16,340
I actually think the exhibition is a
self -portrait.

1005
01:39:16,560 --> 01:39:17,880
That's her. There she sits.

1006
01:39:18,570 --> 01:39:19,750
And she gives it all.

1007
01:39:24,050 --> 01:39:25,830
She always talks about the here and now.

1008
01:39:26,970 --> 01:39:31,970
But this piece, the title, Marina
Abramovich, the artist's presence at the

1009
01:39:31,970 --> 01:39:32,970
-portrait.

1010
01:39:40,130 --> 01:39:42,610
She did create a charismatic face.

1011
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:47,980
A little rent in the fabric of the
universe that was wholly her own, that

1012
01:39:47,980 --> 01:39:48,980
occupied.

1013
01:39:49,840 --> 01:39:54,760
And she did it in a room filled with
many, many people. And many, many people

1014
01:39:54,760 --> 01:39:58,060
felt that charismatic space as a
reality.

1015
01:39:59,240 --> 01:40:00,820
That's an extraordinary achievement.